Welcome to A&R Factory, Whiskey Hill. It’s a pleasure to have you with us to talk about Paloma and the heartfelt musical path you’ve carved across the Midwest. How did the emotional landscape of the Midwest shape the themes you chose to explore on Paloma, and what do you think it brings to the way your music is received by local audiences?
Jon: The album itself is bordering on a concept album. I think growing up in the Midwest comes with a lot of pressure to leave the Midwest and make your way to major cities. Those that do, I think, find out that the same problems they would’ve had in a rural smalltown in America are not so different; they just move at different speeds. Kansas City, where we’re both from, has historically been considered a “fly-over” city and I think part of that imprints itself on our personal narratives. Love and loss can feel like they move slower here and I think they feel bigger because of that. All of the songs on the album are stories that both Tricia and I have experienced in some way. I believe all of our audiences will relate and our Midwest audiences especially so.
Tricia: I’ve lived most of my life in Kansas City, which I would say is the heart of America. We both have many stories from here and I think that naturally shows in our music because it’s what we draw from, it’s our lived experience. I hope that listeners, especially local ones, hear our music and it just sits right in their soul.
Your instrumentation brings a striking depth to your songs. How do you decide which elements – whether it’s mandolin, violin, or guitar – should carry the emotional weight in a particular track?
Jon: When we first started, we both thought that the guitar/mandolin combination made the most sense. After our initial rounds of writing for this album, we realized that violin was the better choice as a lead instrument; with the exception of Serendipity. Violin is Tricia’s primary instrument and it just made more sense for her to pivot to that. I think that native comfort with her instrument really opened up her creativity and exploration when it came to writing melodies. Other songs on the album like “If I Could” are mandolin heavy, but less so as a lead instrument and more as texture.
Tricia: I think a lot of the process for us was just trying different options to see what really felt right. Many of our songs started out with a different arrangement both in instrumentation and even structure of the song. We both have the ability to pick up a couple different instruments which gives us a lot of freedom to experiment and play around.
With your debut album now out in the world, what reflections have surfaced about the songwriting process and the personal truths you committed to these recordings?
Jon: I was mixing and mastering the album and had a lot of time to listen to every song over and over again, and I had a lot of hindsight epiphanies about our songs. A few of our songs touch on what every day life is like for someone with ADHD; specifically “This Moment” and “Serendipity.” “This Moment” is about not being able to embrace your present while you’re living it in because your mind is so preoccupied with trying to process the over-stimulation of big events. “Serendipity”, to me, is about what it must feel like on the other side of being able to manage the little everyday inconveniences that we never plan. “Serendipity” is what I WANT life to be like for me.
“The Rain” is actually about the last day I had with my father before he passed away from an aggressive form of cancer. It’s probably the most vivid memory that I have of my dad now, and writing it was super cathartic.
Tricia: To see the evolution of some of our songs has been mind blowing. Some started as a guitar riff just jamming at a photo shoot, a couple words written from the frustrations of a past relationship, or even a delicious lemon cookie. All of them developed their own identity as we poured ourselves into them. Song writing is relatively new for me and in the beginning I was really nervous about it. But Jon has been incredibly encouraging in the writing process and in creating an environment where I feel safe to explore vulnerable stories and experiences. I also feel that now upon reflection I have a different attitude towards some of those personal experiences I drew from.
Your individual musical backgrounds cover quite a span – from Irish rock to classical and jazz. In what ways have those experiences informed how you approach structure and emotion in your songwriting now?
Jon: I was a member of a national touring act called “The Musical Blades” for 6 years, and I can attribute my time with them as being a catalyst for my songwriting. I’ve always been a writer and composer, but never anything like pop music. When I joined them, they made it crystal clear that any song ideas I had had to be fully fleshed out; lyrics and music, and everything. That was novel to me because so much of my writing before was collaborative and organic. When I wrote something by myself, it tooks ages because I was so concerned with getting it perfect. The truth is that I just needed to get the reps in and stop worrying about getting it right first; just get it done.
As far as the actual writing goes, I have to attribute my side of things to an NPR interview I heard featuring Grace Potter. I’m paraphrasing, but she said something like, “When I tried to write something universally relatable, it all just fell flat. But when I wrote something that was super specific and personal about something I experienced, it was immediately relatable.” I try to live by that when it comes to writing; take my real life experiences and convert them into stories.
Tricia: I grew up learning classical music and it gave me a wonderful base to build off of. However the downside was that it’s taken me years to move away from the feeling that if it’s not perfect then it’s not correct. This has been a major challenge for me in releasing that idea of perfection in order to experiment musically. Now I’m at a comfortable balance of technical knowledge and musical freedom to dive deeper and add more feeling and musical vulnerability into our songs.
It’s clear that storytelling is at the heart of what you do. When you sit down to write, what matters more – the melody that holds the story, or the words that drive it?
Jon: I think it’s fair to say both. A year or two ago, I would’ve leaned on the melody rather than the lyrics, but I have a really difficult time finding the music if the words aren’t there. If the story is there, then the music seems to just gel around it. Trish is going to laugh because I use analogies for everything, but I think that lyrics are like the sourcream and cheese on a fully loaded baked potato; and the music is the potato. The sour cream and cheese are what you REALLY want to eat, but you need the potato as the vehicle to get them into your mouth.
I do think that the lyrics are also flexible because once you start putting music to the words, you might realize the tone of the song or the perspective you thought you had written has shifted completely. I mean, imagine if Margaritaville was in a minor key. “Some people claim that there’s a woman to blame, but I know it’s my own damn fault” totally hit differently when everything sounds sad as hell.
Tricia: I agree that it’s both. I think we really lean into the words taking the forefront though. We definitely start our concepts from a story or an idea we want to convey and even if we also have the begining of a tune started we really focus on our words and build the rest of the song around it. As Jon said, the melody is the potato but the lyrics are all the goodies.
Many listeners have drawn comparisons to acts like The Civil Wars and Gregory Alan Isakov. Do you feel a connection to those artists’ philosophies, or has your focus remained rooted in something more local or personal?
Jon: I’ve been chasing Gregory Alan Isakov’s career for nearly a decade now. I heard it randomly on Pandora back in like 2016, and I told myself, “this is what I want to do.” I think he’s a poet in the best sense of the word. Weirdly, I’ve seen him perform live more than any other artist I enjoy, and every time I see him it’s different and big and beautiful. He’s just an exceptionally big personality, but he’s also one of those intensely charismatic people that demands the attention of an entire room while being soft spoken. The care and craft he puts into his lyrics and music continues to inspire me, and a reminder that in our best moments, we’re storytellers.
Tricia: I love the sound of The Civil Wars, their voices blend so well and the emotion they can convey is amazing. Gregory Alan Isakov is relatively new to me, I sadly didn’t know who he was before Jon introduced me to his music but it’s safe to say I’m now a fan. I don’t think I can contribute inspiration to any one artist though. There are so many amazing musicians in the world and good music knows no genre. I like a little of everything: R&B, indie folk, pop, rap, rock, even international styles like k-pop, bossa-nova, forró, and bachata . Everything we listen to influences us.
You began as a cover act before shifting into original songwriting. Was there a defining moment that made you realise you had something to say with your own words?
Jon: I think we’re going to have the same answer. We had talked about writing original songs but we didn’t really take the initiative until we had our first photoshoot. We needed to start promoting ourselves for cover gigs, and I just start playing a riff I thought was neat and Tricia looked at me like she had a lightbulb over her head that just exploded. We both started riffing on melody and lyric ideas, and I think we both realized we had something special. And then the floodgates opened and we both started trading voicemails and lyric ideas all the time. Our cover song practices got overshadowed by playing with new ideas and lyrics.
Tricia: Yup! The photoshoot in the barn was an epiphany moment. I think after the moment of realization that we had ideas bouncing around and then discovering that we could write really well together there was no going back to just covers.
Paloma was partly produced by Miki P of The Swallowtails. What was it like handing over parts of your sound to someone else for the first time, and how did their influence shape the final result?
Jon: Working with Miki rocked my world in the best possible way. Her approach was incredible. She had the utmost respect for our songs as they were, and she took a lot of care in making sure she understood what we were trying to convey before she made any recommendations. And I think because she did it that way, I trusted her recommendations in the studio and the things she added. We agreed on a LOT, and I would say we probably took over 95% of her suggestions. She’s such a gifted producer, musician, and songwriter. Working with her made me a stronger musician and songwriter. Don’t sleep on her or her work with The Swallowtails!
Tricia: I can’t rave enough about how awesome it has been to work with Miki P! It’s like she saw what we were going for and guided us towards that vision. Handing over something personal you’ve been working on for, essentially, a critique can be absolutely nerve wracking. But Miki never tried to change our sound or shut down ideas. She really worked with us to elevate and mature our songwriting and sound. I’ve learned so much from her and am very grateful that she agreed to work with us.
Listen to Paloma in full on Spotify now.
Interview by Amelia Vandergast